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Rachael McCoy, YW Boston’s Director of Leadership Services, recently sat down with two LeadBoston alumni, Harry Harding (LB’22) and Madeline McNeely (LB’01) to discuss their article “Why We Must Center Belonging and Justice in Our Leadership” which was recently featured in Nonprofit Quarterly. The two alums have been working together for several years at Harvard Business School co-teaching a course on Nonprofit Leadership and Community Engagement, and are each well-established nonprofit leaders. In the interview, Harry and Madeline share great insights and practical strategies for how leaders can effectively bring the concepts of justice and belonging into their work.  
 

Rachael: What was the central idea of the article, what inspired you both to write it? 

Harry: Madeline and I have been teaching and practicing in the DEI space way before it was popular, and I’ve been frustrated with how DEI has been packaged and perceived, and practiced in ways that often leave out the belonging and justice aspect. These are massively important and deeply complex issues and practices to be to be mindful of. This article gave us an opportunity to extract two essential parts which are fundamental, essential, primary pieces of any culture. We were inspired to bring light to how vital these are, and to really look at each of these in their own context, and give leaders some practical ways to think about and practice them. 

Madeline: I think about our social identities and how that shapes leadership, and that if we are not conscious, and that goes for all of us, but as a white woman, the importance of being conscious about power dynamics and the way that I can wield power for oppressive means or for liberatory means is essential to being an effective leader. I think that in the nonprofit sector, if we look at the origins, the idea was to mitigate against, or dare I say, eradicate social ills and all forms of oppression. And in our sector, in some ways, absolutely, we do that. And at the same time, we also perpetuate inequity. Harry and I, because we teach the course that we teach,–but also just who we are as humans, colleagues, and friends,–we know that you can’t be an effective leader in the 21st century or the 20th century or the 19th century or any century, unless you understand dynamics of justice. 

Rachael: So, what are some of the key barriers to achieving this in organizations or movements today? 

Harry They’re either minimized in terms of their relevance or they’re overinflated. They’re minimizing their importance, and so that then they’re not implemented. Or, these seem like these are big, broad, abstract ideas.  But, if you think about it, belonging and justice are the primary parts of any culture. They’re actually far more intuitive, fundamental, and primary than we give them credit for. In the article, we provide some implementable tips that take the concepts from that grand level to a ground level. 

Madeline: Yeah, and model that this work is possible with intention and attention. I think the sense of urgency and the scarcity mindset infects the nonprofit sector. I think we forget to remember how important it is to operationalize our values, and if belonging is a value or justice is a value, how did I show up today to model that? It’s really hard to even ask that question if I’m freaked out about fundraising and I have staffing issues.  (I could go on and on about the challenges of running an organization), so I think some of it is where we put our attention and intention, and to consistently be able to distinguish from what’s important, what’s urgent and how when you live in a capitalist society, we are constantly up against scarcity on all levels whether it’s material scarcity, time, or emotions.  

Harry: I love that. In the article we encourage leaders to think “U.P.” — with both Urgency and Patience— in this work because change is constant. It’s definite. But it also can be very slow, right? So, you may need to have a lot of patience, even though the need may be immediate. The sense of urgency around the particular issue of justice or belonging that you’re trying to ,address has gravity, and it’s serious and it’s immediate. You also have to give yourselves grace as leaders and as organizations to say, “you know this takes time, and  
going to make real change. 

Rachael: You are both LeadBoston alum, which we’re excited about! Can you share a moment or memory from your time in LeadBoston that may have influenced,shaped, or even changed how you think about leadership, whether that’s in your career or your personal life? 

Madeline: I was in the class of 2001 and when I was in LeadBoston, we were put into small groups. Each group was in charge of creating a day.  We were the arts, religion, and spirituality group, and we ended up hosting the day at Trinity Church in Copley Square. I happened to be paralleling in my personal life trying to understand Christianity and my disdain for organized religion, and grappling with the challenges that white people have leading, or at least backing. the antiracist movement, and wishing to work more deeply with white folks on that. Because of that program day, I’ve now been a member of Trinity Church for 20 something years, and started the anti-racism team there. It’s had a profound shift on much of my career in terms of doing faith-based, antiracist work. 

Harry: It really was the collective experience that LeadBoston gave me. When I think back, it was the experience of having all these perspectives and leaders from all these different sectors and fields, coming together to have a conversation and learn. The takeaway for me was being able to come back [to Children’s Services of Roxbury] from LeadBoston, with that leadership experience andtangible practice,. I started the initiative of engaging the young people to be a part of our vision building for the next phase of our organizational development. and having young people’s voices take ownership in that process. I think about that all the time, and now we are seeing the benefits of that, and that feels amazing. I credit a lot of that to LeadBoston for creating the space for me to be able to bring that kind of initiative back. 

Rachael: What advice would you give LeadBoston participants and alumni – especially folks who are looking to bring more justice and belonging, and incorporate these ideas that you talked about in the article into their leadership practices? 

Madeline: There are two questions for a leader who wants to bring more justice and belonging into their leadership and into the culture of wherever they influence. The first question that’s important to start with is: What inspires you as a leader? When we can be connected to the answers that you reveal, you’re going to be so much more primed to address the second question, which is: What scares you about being more known as a leader who’s rooted in justice and belonging? I think about Howard Thurman’s quote, “Don’t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive.”  One of our primary jobs as leaders is to inspire. So that is what I want to keep reminding leaders of  — what inspires you, and then how can you use the answers to help address the parts of you that are scared to be even more bold in what it means to practice justice and belonging. 
 
Harry: I think there is a phrase that says something like, “you know a person that knows their why can solve almost any how. I would start there – — find your purpose and live your purpose. To practice, create the space for the learning and for the unlearning. Create the space for the exploration and for the dialogue. If justice and belonging are part of your values, find ways to live them.  
 
Madeline: At the end of the article, there are seven strategies, and we thought a lot about those! 

Rachael: We would love to highlight your work. Tell me about what you’re excited to share. 

Harry: We have our course at Harvard starting in a few weeks. This is our seventh or eighth year teaching together, and this is the first time we’re offering this course in the spring. We’re in the process of prepping for that right now, which is exciting. We do intend to write more together – we have a dream to co-author a book together – an anthology of leadership wisdom, inspirational, practical guide for leaders based on some of our learnings throughout the years that we have been working together. 
 
Madeline: He said it! Certainly more writing, the teaching, and the ripples of this. We would love to be a resource to future LeadBoston alums and to the community.  So any waythat we can be of support, we will show up.